TIA Position Control of a hydralic swingshear using Hydraulic cylinders with S7 1500

[Mathia]

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Hello,

I have to realize the control of an hydraulic swingshear using two coupled hydraulic cylinders as shown in the figure below.
The old control is realized with the CFC

(Continuous Function Chart)​

using the old module T400 masterdrive, and now the new control has to be done in the new series 1500.
Everything stays the same only the control changes. Positioning from +45 to -45 should be done in 1 second.
Since the conversion of CFC into another language available in 1500 is not possible, control should be done new.

Would sinamics s 120 hydraulic drive be useful for this application?

Any suggestion on how to realize Pressure/ positon / velocity and flow control ??

 

[Blockmove]

Hydraulic Motion Control could be difficult.
S120 hydraulic drive or https://www.boschrexroth.com/en/xc/...-products/motion/programmable/hnc100/hnc100-2 would be useful. They have the possibility to adjust the curve of the prop-valve.

 

[Mathia]

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Hello blockmove,

thanks for your quick answer.
I have to use S120 but the question is:
Is it possible to make use of the actual program already done in CFC in tiaportal V13 or in the future V14 or I would have to start over?

 

[zako]

Hello,

I suppose, you don´t have an electrical axis - only hydraulic?
What is your existing control structure? Maybe using the T400 with two analogue output-s (one for each axis) and read in the actual position with a SBM2?

If you want to use your existing CFC- logic, it could be possible to make a transfer to the CU320-2 platform with SINAMICS DCB. There is also the possibility to write own C/C++ blocks.
Maybe it is possible to use the S7-1500 technology object. It can handle analogue axis too. If you have to implement a valve characteristic cam, you can manipulate the output after the setpoint interpolation. But this I haven´t tested before.

I would contact your local SIEMENS drives application center.

Zako

 

[Blockmove]

You have an very special hydraulic configuration.
To keep the shear in position, you need interaction of both prop-valves.
If i had to do this job, i would remove both prop-valves and use one
https://www.boschrexroth.com/en/xc/products/product-groups/industrial-hydraulics/proportional-servo-valves/products/directional-control-valves/direct-operated/integrated-axis-controller/iac-multi-ethernet/index#

 

[Mathia]

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hello Zako

I suppose, you don´t have an electrical axis - only hydraulic?
What is your existing control structure? Maybe using the T400 with two analogue output-s (one for each axis) and read in the actual position with a SBM2?

That's right, no electrical axis. The actual position is read within T400.

If you want to use your existing CFC- logic, it could be possible to make a transfer to the CU320-2 platform with SINAMICS DCB. There is also the possibility to write own C/C++ blocks.

I want to use the existing CFC-logic where also some blocks are written in C. But the question is, is DCB totally compatible with CFC or further modifications are needed?

 

[zako]

Hello,

I know that the following applications are based on the D7-SYS blocks which are used on T400, FM458, SIMATIC TDC
https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/ww/en/view/72839973
So it would be possible to do a portation from your code to SINAMCIS DCB too.

But I really don´t know if you want to do that. If it is only one machine, you can use a SIMATIC TDC too (there is just a new one which offers now Profinet IRT for example ). You can discuss that here too:
https://support.industry.siemens.com/tf/ww/en/threads/176/?page=0&pageSize=10

But maybe it would be better to think about a new concept with SIMATIC S7-1500 (without a CU320-2)?
- Using Technology Objects of the S7-1500
- Using a S7-1518 ODK where you can use C/C++ code

Zako

 

[Mathia]

But maybe it would be better to think about a new concept with SIMATIC S7-1500 (without a CU320-2)?
- Using Technology Objects of the S7-1500
- Using a S7-1518 ODK where you can use C/C++ code

I was thinking to create a new concept with S7-1500 without using CU320-2.
Was thinking to obtain the control structure from the actual CFC logic, convert the CFC blocks (AND OR XOR .....) to their equivalent in S7-1500 and maybe build the other blocks like PLI2 (polygon characteristic with two transition points) in SCL Funciton blocks.

What IM not sure at thispoint is if im going to be able to convert the other blocks from the cfc logic to their equivalent. I guess this should work as a logic.

 

[Blockmove]

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Was thinking to obtain the control structure from the actual CFC logic, convert the CFC blocks (AND OR XOR .....) to their equivalent in S7-1500 and maybe build the other blocks like PLI2 (polygon characteristic with two transition points) in SCL Funciton blocks.
Anhang anzeigen 32708

I think you should give a technology object a try.
You "only" have to scale the output of the technology object to the 2 analog output of your prop-valves.
If the valve characteristic cam is almost linear, the job is done fast.
If not you can define the characteristic in a datablock.

 

[Mathia]

Hello,

the cfc logic comprises pressure regulator, position , velocity and durchfluss vorsteuerung. How to combine all these with technology objects and which from the available ones to use?.